"U.S. Delays Sending Precision Weapons to Israel" Topic

The Biden administration has delayed the sale of thousands of precision weapons to Israel, raising questions about whether the U.S. is deliberating slowing the delivery of weapons to its top Middle East ally amid growing domestic political pressure…

Wall Street Journal: link

The Israelis won't stop. If they have to switch to less precise munitions they will and more civilians will die. Good call Joe…get more innocent people killed.

Bill say the same thing I did In another thread when I reported this:

So in a nutshell (paraphrasing for POTUS): Israel you sit back and take whatever Hamas and Hasbulla throw at you and we will try to help you stop them landing, but you don't go in and try to stop it permanently. It's ok for us to avenge 9/11 in Iraq and Afghanistan, but you can't avenge the October Massacre. All and also, I need the votes of those over here who hate you, in November.

Yes, November doth approach for the administration.
Reminds me of the Monty Python song:
"Every Sperm Is Sacred"
But with different lyrics.

Every vote is sacred

Every vote is great

If a vote is wasted

The Party gets quite irate
😉

Subject: Citizen Free Press on X: "Biden tells CNN that he will not only continue to pause shipments of bombs to Israel, but also hold up artillery shells because what the IDF has done and wants to do is 'just wrong.' t.co/tChCG1IB3l / X


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If you need the Hamas vote to win an election maybe you shouldn't be running.

If you need the Hamas vote to win an election, you're one of the bad guys.

Seems like a mistake to me: I can't think of too much that's more likely to help his opponent than helping Hamas. He should list all these pro-Hamas protests as an in-kind contribution on his election filing.

Of course, then they would prosecute him for it.

No ally is ever good enough and no Enemy ever evil enough for US Goverment.

Maybe my recall is funny, but wasn't that exactly what they tried to impeach 45 for the first time?

Congress and Senate funded weapons sales and transfers and then POTUS was accused of delaying or blocking them???

Only this time it is Isreal instead of Ukrain.

What a confused foreigner I am to expect consistancy?!?

Maybe there is a benefit from being a foreigner and being able to watch from the nosebleed seats. From my perspective,,,, more popcorn,,,,.

Troopwo, exactly 100% correct!

AHEM delay the weapons shipments. In the middle of the night an unmarked cargo plane lands at an Israeli airfield and offloads the weapons… Crates are marked humanitarian aid for Gaza…

This is just posturing for votes a pure dog and pony show and changes nothing.

The problem with 45 is that the delay in the aid was tied in with providing information against his political opponent. Implication – if you don't have any info, make some up …

The votes he is courting he already has. In no way would they want a strong US President, it is in their best interest to keep a weak leader in place in the US. Borders wide open to all types of illegal activity. I don't think even George R. R. Martin could come up with such a convoluted plot for fiction for the lunacy that has become the US government. The only thing worse is watching Putin slaughter a generation in Ukraine to keep NATO off of Russians doorstep to only then have NATO on Russia's doorstep.

Here's a parade of Hamas supporters in a caravan/truck convoy – a wonderful little Hamas Bund movement we've allowed to build inside the US, eh?

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In no way would they want a strong US President, it is in their best interest to keep a weak leader in place in the US. Borders wide open to all types of illegal activity. I don't think even George R. R. Martin could come up with such a convoluted plot for fiction for the lunacy that has become the US government.

Yes -- and now we know why we have a party promoting Open Borders. The Democrats just overwhelmingly voted in Congress to count non-Citizens in the US Census for Congressional Seats and for votes in the Electoral College. That 22 Million people represent up to THIRTY new Congressional seats and long term Single Party power.

Shameful what the Administration is doing and I can't help but think that the other Friends and Allies of the United States notice too. Troubling.

It is an election year … the US moslem vote is very small. But as many as votes as possible are needed by any US citizen to "win".

By saying this ordinance is not going to be sent to our best ally and only democracy in the region. Certainly another poor geopolitical decision. That may come back to bit the US in the butt. Anyone can see this is to appease the US moslem community again as I said to get votes.

What the play with this situation IMO should have been done, saying to Hamas release all the hostage, dead or alive. Or the US will send this ordinance and more to the IDF.

Would it work ? Maybe, but it is better than saying the US won't send the munitions. As they are afraid the IDF will use it. Killing more Hamas/Palestinians, etc.

Trying to play both sides in the middle is a pretty big error IMO. But again, it is an election year …

Regardless, the IDF will continue to cleanse Gaza of the Iranian supported Hamas terrorists, etc. Reports are only about 4 Bns are left. Which as they are "light infantry"/insurgents, maybe each Bn is about 600 men in strength, AFAIK ?

Although the Muslim vote could be critical for him in Michigan, it is not that crucial elsewhere. It's the students vote they are worried about and the discontent they are propagating. They are making the administration look bad closing in on the election.

What he and many others seem to forget is, Hamas killed US citizens on 10/7. They also hold at least 5 US citizens hostage.

Hamas needs to be destroyed.

Who gives a about the POTUS's decision to hold up a weapons exchange! Israel should be able to stand on its own two feet to fight Hamas. They have no tanks, planes, reaper type drones or electronic warfare. Go house to house and do them in. I'm not saying I'm anti Israel, because I'm not. But do we need to give them another pile of expensive munitions we might need ourselves. Their shopping list, is US taxpayer funded and about 30BN annually. If you don't like the current POTUS, vote in November. Gaza is 1/3 the size of my county. Not sure it would take a pile of guided munitions to subdue a rag tag force of shitbags with small arms.

Amen…

Amen…amid growing humanitarian pressure, just finish it, IDF. Shall we speculate about Bibbi's game? Trump and the no legislation on the border game? Skip the politics here, no one has any proof of anything, per usual.

Do you two feel the same about the Ukraine and aid? If so, that is consistent.
If no… then.

As far as no proof, his holding back the aid is in his own words and pretty much reported on news of both liberal and conservative sources.

To point, his interview on CNN.

"Biden tells CNN that he will not only continue to pause shipments of bombs to Israel, but also hold up artillery shells because what the IDF has done and wants to do is "just wrong"….

CNN's Erin Burnett: "I want to ask you about something happening as we sit here and speak and that of course is Israeli striking Rafah. I know that you have paused, Mr. President, shipments of 2,000-pound U.S. bombs to Israel due to concern that they could be used in any offensive on Rafah. Have those bombs — those powerful 2,000-pound bombs, been used to kill civilians in Gaza?"

Joe Biden: "Civilians have been killed in Gaza as the consequences those bombs and other ways in which they go after population centers. And I made it clear — [COUGHS] — that, if they go into Rafah — they haven't gone into Rafah yet — if they go into Rafah, I'm not supplying the weapons that have been used historically deal with Rafah, to deal with the cities, that deal with that problem. We're going to continue to make sure Israel is secure in terms of Iron Dome and their ability to respond to attacks like — came out of — the — in — the Middle East recently. But it's — it's — it's just wrong. We're not gonna — we're not gonna supply the weapons and the artillery shells used that have been used."

Burnett: "Artillery shells as well?"

Biden: "Yeah, artillery shells."

Burnett: "So, just to understand what they're doing right now — [BIDEN COUGHS] — in Rafah is that not going into Rafah as you [inaudible]."

Biden: "No, they haven't gotten in the population centers. What they did is right on the border and it's causing problems with — right now — [COUGHS] — in terms of what Egypt — which I've worked very hard make sure we have a relationship and help but I've made it clear to Bibi and the war cabinet. They're not going to get our support if, in fact, they go into these population centers.""

It's Tort, 35th, I got early release! I get all this. The IDF needs to make an end of this now. By that I mean what Titch has said. Find the rest of Hamas, take ‘em out, hopefully save some hostages.

Then what? The work ahead is complex and massive.

Hi Tort,

Yes, I would love for the IDF to go in and finish Hamas. Since they have congregated in Rafah, then: "Cry Havoc and Let Slip The Dogs of War!"

I wrote the above just before seeing this.

Subject: Citizen Free Press on X: "Hamas launches rockets from southern Gaza into Israel this morning, striking a kindergarten playground with kids in the shelter. This occurs less than 48 hours after Biden declared a weapons freeze and said Israel shouldn't finish Hamas off in Rafah. t.co/SJhdSgUaOa / X


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From the NYT:

The president was livid. He had just been shown pictures of civilians killed by Israeli shelling, including a small baby with an arm blown off. He ordered aides to get the Israeli prime minister on the phone and then dressed him down sharply.

The president was Ronald Reagan, the year was 1982, and the battlefield was Lebanon, where Israelis were attacking Palestinian fighters. The conversation Mr. Reagan had with Prime Minister Menachem Begin that day, Aug. 12, would be one of the few times aides ever heard the usually mild-mannered president so exercised.

"It is a holocaust," Mr. Reagan told Mr. Begin angrily.

Mr. Begin, whose parents and brother were killed by the Nazis, snapped back, "Mr. President, I know all about a holocaust."

Nonetheless, Mr. Reagan retorted, it had to stop. Mr. Begin heeded the demand. Twenty minutes later, he called back and told the president that he had ordered a halt to the shelling. "I didn't know I had that kind of power," Mr. Reagan marveled to aides afterward.
It would not be the only time he would use it to rein in Israel. In fact, Mr. Reagan used the power of American arms several times to influence Israeli war policy, at different points ordering warplanes and cluster munitions to be delayed or withheld.

Politicizing this does not bring us any answers. We don't know what we don't know and our poison politics and media has hurt all of us. Who, what, where, why? Did Biden's action cause kindergarten children to be attacked? Or does it mean that the IDF needs to finish up so this can finally end?

Obviously Reagan was wrong and that is one of the reasons this continues to this day.

My pity for the Palestinians is not deep. They elected Hamas, they failed to expel Hamas, many cheered on 9/11 and 10/7 and supported both attacks and the majority still support Hamas and supply willing recruits.

Even if one does not support Israel, Hamas butchered US citizens on 10/7 and hold others hostage. They have also killed our people on other occasions.

Subject: Over 70 Percent of Palestinians Support Hamas's October 7 Terror Attack

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@Escapee – if you read the article and the older archived MYT only confirm that Larry Speakes, the deputy White House press secretary confirmed that Reagan spoke with Begin and didn't disclose the substance of the call. The quote you cited is not sourced or verifiable, only attributed to "sources say." And it's the NYT…

Based on Reagan's own diaries, as well as observations from others on his team. Looks pretty solid.

I always wonder to what extent the population votes or answers polls out of fear under the brutal Hamas dictatorship. Not sure anyone actually knows.

Israel should be able to stand on its own two feet to fight Hamas. They have no tanks, planes, reaper type drones or electronic warfare.

Yes the IDF has and will do it again. However, as I have said before The IDF's mission is a very challenging one. Fighting in MOUT[Military Operations in Urban Terrain] against fanatical insurgents. The fact that Hamas has no AFVs, aircraft, etc. does not make fighting insurgents in urban terrain any easier. Insurgencies like in A'stan can be a real challenge.

Light Infantry, as most insurgents are classified, can use all the structures, ruins, etc. to hide and wait for the attackers. Then ambush them. They have AT weapons like RPGs, etc. And they will use IEDs, mines, booby traps etc. As well as it is their "backyard". Like the VC in Vietnam. So, they have the home field advantage.

In an operation you want to fight combined arms. As we were trained and the IDF is doing. Prepping the battlefield with FA and CAS is generally a standard in most missions. Targeting known and likely enemy positions. With prep fires the attacker wants to kill, wound, suppress, etc. the enemy before the attacker goes into the assault.

As a former Rifle Plt Ldr and later Mech Co Cdr. In many situations even in training. We liked FA and/or CAS to support our attacks generally.

So the IDF needs the 155mm SPFA ammo as well as the aircraft ordinance. To keep their losses as low as possible. And kill , capture, or destroy enemy personnel and equipment.

And yes sadly in a combat situations non-combatant may get killed, wounded, etc. Hamas makes this even worse by using their own people as human shields. As every woman and child killed plays into their agenda. And claim the IDF is committing genocide etc. As we see with all the riots at US collages, etc. who support Hamas/Palestinian, their propaganda is working. They keep this war going as long as they can. Gaining sympathy from the "useful dupes and vilifying the Israels. It is an old technique. And sometimes it just may work. As we see on US college campuses.

This is not a sound military decision not to supply the IDF, but a political one. Again, it is an election year …

Israel should be able to stand on its own two feet to fight Hamas. They have no tanks, planes, reaper type drones or electronic warfare.

Yes the IDF has and will do it again. However, as I have said before The IDF's mission is a very challenging one. Fighting in MOUT[Military Operations in Urban Terrain] against fanatical insurgents. The fact that Hamas has no AFVs, aircraft, etc. does not make fighting insurgents in urban terrain any easier. Insurgencies like in A'stan can be a real challenge.

Light Infantry, as most insurgents are, can use all the structures, ruins, etc. to hide and wait for the attackers. Then ambush them. They have AT weapons like RPGs, etc. And they will use IEDs, mines, booby traps etc. As well as it is their "backyard". Like the VC in Vietnam. So, they have the home field advantage.

In an operation you want to fight combined arms. As we were trained and the IDF is doing. Prepping the battlefield with FA and CAS is generally a standard in most missions. Targeting known and likely enemy positions. With prep fires the attacker wants to kill, wound, suppress, etc. the enemy before the attacker goes into the assault.

As a former Rifle Plt Ldr and later Mech Co Cdr. In many situations even in training. We liked FA and/or CAS to support our attacks generally.

So the IDF needs the 155mm SPFA ammo as well as the aircraft ordinance. To keep their losses as low as possible. And kill , capture, or destroy enemy personnel and equipment.

And yes sadly in a combat situations non-combatant may get killed, wounded, etc. Hamas makes this even worse by using their own people as human shields. As every woman and child killed plays into their agenda. And claim the IDF is committing genocide etc. As we see with all the riots at US collages, etc. who support Hamas/Palestinian, their propaganda is working. They keep this war going as long as they can. Gaining sympathy from the "useful dupes and vilifying the Israels. It is an old technique. And sometimes it just may work. As we see on US college campuses.

The decision to not supplying the ammo and bombs to the IDF. Is not a military choice but a political one. As I have said it is an election year …

The Reagan example was about diplomacy. He was not running for election. It's not hard to imagine Biden wanting the blood and destruction to end. He is thinking about the aftermath, based on his statements. He may not be right on the way to go about it, but he seems like a decent guy, and he has a lot more info than we do.

It seems pretty clear the naive kids want the war to end for the most part. I don't know, too many outsiders? But again, media agendas rule the country. We only see and hear what they choose. Then we gobble up the outrage on both sides. Another divisive blow to the US. For profit.

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I just heard a report on CNN. It appears that only some 2000lbs. bombs are being withheld. As I said this is a political move. More for politics, optics, votes. Similar to the one of first dominos of many that fell/are falling – i.e. the poorly planned by civilian leadership – the A'stan withdrawal debacle. The Rat $^%&*) that demonstrated to Putin that the US leaders did not have the right stuff. Then he invaded the Ukraine.

He also mentioned artillery shells as well.

I still disagree. Too close to Reagan's
position. How do we know the IDF cannot finish it with what that have? I have no practical knowledge of where that stands.
I respect Legions expertise.but we don't know a lot and we can't often trust what we hear.

Subject: Biden administration granted sanctions relief to Arab nations just before president's Israel aid threat


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He also mentioned artillery shells as well.

Yes I heard that in a later report. I'd think those would be for their US made M109A6 SPFA 155mm. We see them often in the footage.

I respect Legions expertise.but we don't know a lot and we can't often trust what we hear.

Well you should not request it when you need it. You should already have it on hand. Then order more … Regardless … this war has to only end in one way. Hamas, etc. must be significantly attrited so as they pose much less of a threat. And all their current leaders dead or captured.

For the remaining surviving Palestinian civilians and the ruins of Gaza … That is above my pay grade.

????!

"Biden administration reportedly also says it can give information on locations of secret tunnels in Gaza used by terror group as incentive not to enter Gaza's southernmost city"

"The Biden administration has reportedly offered to give Israel "sensitive intelligence" on the whereabouts of senior Hamas leaders if it agrees to hold off on a long-promised major military operation in Gaza's southernmost city of Rafah."

Shouldn't we have done this already?! Wouldn't this help end the war?! These terrorists killed US CITIZENS!! They HOLD US CITIZENS!!

Subject: US said offering intel on Hamas leaders' whereabouts if Israel drops major Rafah op | The Times of Israel


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Sounds like someone on the inside with sympathy for Hamas might be trying to cut a deal to make sure they survive.

Yes, certainly sounds like the US top leadership is still trying to get the US moslem vote. This is unbelievable that a top US leader would try to "extort" the IDF by withholding intel like this. To stop the IDF from going on a large attack on the last major Hamas enclave. IMO this is really another impeachable offense.

The US top leaders rarely even mentioned about the US hostages.

Again, they don't get it. Hamas, Iran, etc. are islamic terrorists. Talking to any terrorist/jihadis is generally a waste of time.

Again, unbelievable!

Yes, I agree about talking to Hamas leaders. Unless they produce the hostages, no deal should be made.

Why was the intel withheld? Here, it is always assumed to be political. No proof. Why make this public? What is the nature and value of this intel? What assets are likely to be exposed? How does this relate to the hostages?

Impeachable? What evidence of crime is revealed? Diplomatic cards are being played. The role of the US election is unknown. The humanitarian impact of the IDF's performance is said to be the issue for much of the world. Where is the proof that they are getting results against Hamas? Hostages saved to date? Are they winning? Does it depend on stepped up US support? These guys had huge intelligence issues before Oct 7 based on performance and results. They used to be the best in the region. What holds true now?

"Impeachable? What evidence of crime is revealed?"

I would guess the same as the other party used against the previous POTUS for withholding arms to the Ukraine. They set a precedent. I am just saying, that would be my guess. 😇

So the Biden Admin knew where on-the-ground Hamas leadership were located, and where their primary command & control bunkers and tunnels were and have been withholding that for domestic political purposes? I'd like to say I'm surprised, but then that's how they've been running the Ukraine War as well…

I suppose. We all heard Trump ask Zelensky to investigate Hunter Biden while he was withholding military aid. That seems pretty clear.
Where is the actual connection here with Biden to commit a crime is my question?

Impeachable? What evidence of crime is revealed?

Most in Congress don't think it is an impeachable offense. However, it demonstrates another failing of US geopolitics. E.g. the A'stan Withdrawal debacle, which in turn emboldened Putin to invade Ukraine. In both cases the intel saw what was going on. And the US leadership was late in reacting.

E.g. the Taliban were gobbling up provinces in A'stan for weeks. It was clear they were on a general all-out offensive. Everything the US did was late and violated sound military tactics, logic. etc. I have talked about this before … so … 'nuff said …

Also, as Putin took months to line up his forces on Ukraine's border. Much of what the Ukraine needed should have been delivered at that time. Not delivered after as the Russians invaded. And still then the US leadership was dragging its feet.

By the grace of the gods of war, the Ukraine fought very successfully. And the Russians demonstrated little to no tactic expertise in modern warfare. If the Ukraine had those assets before the Russians crossed border. The Ukraine may not be in the current tactical and operation status they are currently.

So, by not supporting the IDF for primarily optics and political reasons. To gain the US moslem vote. And not supporting our best ally in that region. Does not make the US look like a very good ally …

Again, the A'stan withdrawal. Slow support for Ukraine. And now IDF support … 3 strikes … you're out. With that not surprising record of supporting allies just shows what I and others have posted here.

What the "diplomatic" efforts by the US should have been telling Hamas to give up all the hostages. Or the US will continue send more very powerful ordinance to the IDF.

It may be bad policy, a poor decision, but still not a crime, based on what little we know.

There is clearly a humanitarian issue, but we don't really know how bad it is. The question is whether it is unavoidable CD because of Hamas tactics, or the IDF is not as good as we thought, taking too long… Or they are dragging it out for some political reason. Or several things. KNo way to know. Israel will no doubt investigate the run up to Oct 7 to see how it happened. But I think they are going to catch it for the way they appear to have conducted the war, rightly or wrongly.

I thought we had shared extensive intel with Ukraine? Targeting data for warships, for example.

I have worked in government most of my life. The employees are never allowed to speak, everything must go through a designated spokesperson. The official press release contains elements of the truth but is a total pack of lies by omission of details and facts that would reveal the true narrative…

If Biden delays one box of munitions for five minutes he told the truth…

It may be bad policy, a poor decision, but still not a crime, based on what little we know.

At least 3 very bad geopolitical decisions … 'nuff said …

thought we had shared extensive intel with Ukraine? Targeting data for warships, for example.

We did … but Ukraine is not fighting an islamic jihadi force, E.g. Hamas. And the molsem American vote are required for the current US leadership.

Israel was attacked. This is the war Hamas wanted and knew would happen. Hamas has said they will never stop attacking Israel. Not one Muslim nation has offered to take refugees. Every attempt at ceasefire has been thwarted by Hamas. Hamas still holds hostages. Hamas uses their own people as human shields and withholds provisions. Hamas uses alliances with the Western Left to bring violence and political unrest to the West. The US has withheld critical intelligence that would end the war more quickly and with less loss of life, deciding not to tell Israel where Hamas commanders and their HQ bunkers are. And the US is now withholding precision munitions from Israel (that they paid for) that can end the war more quickly with less loss of life.

Hamas has chosen war.
The Biden Admin has chosen to support Hamas' war.

Guess Israel stands alone for now…

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"We have to be honest about the fact that Hamas will remain in Gaza in some form after the war is over."

Thought so…try and imagine replacing "Hamas" with "The Third Reich."

"At least 3 very bad geopolitical decisions … 'nuff said …"

A 4th, and the Russians will get the base we taxpayers paid for. 😔

Subject: Pentagon orders all US combat troops to withdraw from Niger – POLITICO


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"The Biden administration has chosen to support Hamas' war… "

Really? No point in arguing here. Whatever you believe that proves this is up to you.

"The US has withheld critical intelligence that would end the war.." okay, what exactly is it then? Does the IDF now know after watching "Outnumbered"? So end the war. Or…maybe explain why some Dems would condemn thousands to death to maybe get some election help. The confirmation of this with evidence would be good. Actual evidence. Not the plan to destroy America thing.

Israel stands alone now…forever backed by billions in U.S. equipment and support. Who's trying to win an election with this rhetoric now?

What is the reality? Can you kill every Hamas supporter and then there will be peace and prosperity? It is said that every Gazan family who loses a loved one to the IDF has a recruitment visit from Hamas.

Third Reich? Did we kill every Nazi party member in order to end the war? Gaza does look like Berlin, I guess. What was the lesson for post war success? Destroying the leadership was critical. Punishing the inhuman criminals. Did we exterminate every Nazi soldier or supporter?

Reality. It is possible that you cannot exterminate Hamas. We agree that this would be great. I want to know how they can prove when they are done doing this. How will Israel win the peace? What might this really look like?