"Pavlov Grenadiers" Topic

Reading A.V. VISKOVATOV's (actually Mark Conrad's translation – thanks Mark) description of the uniform changes for the Grenadiers, there is little about the Pavlov Regiment retaining their old head gear. Assuming that this actually was the case (many other sources referring to this), is anyone aware if there are there other details of this regiments uniform which were also retained when the rest of the grenadiers regiments uniforms were changed pre-1812?

Nope, to my knowledge just the headgear. Uniform cut changed like everyone else.

If I recall right, there was a section in one of the Empires, Eagles, & Lions magazines that talked about which battalions wore the mitre that they are so famous for. Again, if memory serves me right, every man in the first battalion did, but then only officers and senior NCOs in the 2nd battalion, then the depot battalion (3rd) did not have any, so you need to factor that in when building units.

See discussion "Pavlov Grenadier mitres 1812" at TMP link where the suggestion is that only the 1st (i.e. Grenadier) company in each battalion had the mitre but….

Extract from above AntonioK post of 01 Feb 2009 4:16 a.m. PST
"I red the report of the major-general Lavrov the commander of the second division in 1810 to the War ministry. Ñommander asked what to do with extra grenadier(tall) mitres in Pavlovski regiment after battalion reorganization that lead to the reduction of one grenadier company in regiment. The minister replied that after conversation with Czar about the subject he recommends (orders) that 3 grenadier companies of the regiment should wear grenadier mitres, the rest of the companies of fusiliers should have fusilier hats (smaller mitre version). In the beginning of 1811 War ministry asked to give extra tall mitres to commissariat. Therefore only one company in each Pavlovski battalion in 1812 had tall mitre headgears, 3 other companies in each battalion kept fusilier version. Officers of grenadier companies also wore tall version, it is also known that some officers in regiment used new kiwers."

the depot battalion (3rd) did not have any

In the 1811 Russian scheme, 2nd battalion was the depot, 1st and 3rd were the field battalions.

The officers of the regiment in the period 1812-1814 did not wear a miter – they used a general army shako.
The miter in the period 1812-14 differed from the original model of 1802 by the presence of a chin strap.

Attack of the fusiliers of the Pavlovsk Grenadier Regiment during the period 1812-14.

Figures Front-Rank Pavlovsk Grenadier Regiment.

link

Articles in Russian with good pictures of the Mitre over the years (from Old Zeughaus).link
One in French (from Tradition) on the regiment in 1811 link

@Cuprum2 Nice image but since he's a contemporary artist, what are his sources.

This information is from modern recognized Russian researchers, based, as I understand it, on their research in the archives.
Ilya Ulyanov – "Russian infantry in the Patriotic War of 1812." Moscow 2013.
Sergey Popov – "Army and garrison infantry of Alexander 1. Regimental uniforms." Moscow, 2010.

@ Cuprum, thanks useful for the future.

Many thanks everyone.

So, to summarise…
Same uniforms as rest of the Grenadiers (until they went into the Guard) except for the headgear, where sources differ..
1. Only 1st Btn with Mitres;
2. Only 1st Btn with Mitres plus NCOs and officers in 2nd Btn;
3. Grenadier companies (Grenadier & Marksmen platoons?) with tall mitres; and Fusiliers companies with shorter mitres (wIthout the white tufts – Maybe?)
So.
As they were in the St. Petersburg Inspection (Red cloth at the top at the back), second in seniority (white at the bottom at the back), otherwise pick your source as to decide how to show the headgear to represent them.
The rest of the uniform was – uniform.